On Jul 15, 5:53 pm, "Fiona Abrahami"
fiona@NO_SPAM.intxtdoc.demon.co.uk> wrote:
levin...@gmail.com> wrote

The last thing Israel needs now is a public insult to Obama.

No, the last thing Israel needs right now is bow down to this guy.

Fiona

IMO let Obama make his speech and see how Israelis react. It is up to
them.

As far as Obama pushing for Israel to surrender land, I don't like it
one bit. However in retrospect, what is the realistic solution?

On 17-Jul-2009, lee schotness <schotn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Personally I think the ordinary Pals are just as sick of this as a lot
of Israeli's are
& would jump at the chance for peace

And whatmakes you think this?
What evidence have they shown of this?

albeit with some grumbling
for example Gaza has been very quiet since the last reprisal

How long has it been since the last reprisal?
How long is it usually between incidents like this?

Susan

On Jul 19, 2:26 pm, Nick Cramer <n_cramerS...@pacbell.net> wrote:
mm <mm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
[ . . . ]
What gall me are the empty apologies. "I'm sorry if what I said hurt your
feelings" kind of thing.


Isn't that just trying to be nice?
Or is that just a British thing?
Sorry if that hurts any other nationalities feelings.
Lee

On 20 July, 04:23, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
On 17-Jul-2009, lee schotness <schotn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Personally I think the ordinary Pals are just as sick of this as a lot
of Israeli's are
& would jump at the chance for peace

And whatmakes you think this?
What evidence have they shown of this?

albeit with some grumbling
for example Gaza has been very quiet since the last reprisal

How long has it been since the last reprisal?
How long is it usually between incidents like this?

Susan

It seems to be 2 or 3 years,

but then again Jenin, has been mostly
quiet for a long time now & haven't some of the militants there given
up the armed struggle altogether.

This reminds me of a story I once heard, about a <clergyperson> on
vacation. He brought his family to <worship experience>, including the
newborn. The clergyman at the vacation spot looked at the (less than
attractive) child and said in an admiring tone: "well, isn't *that* a
baby!" The visiting clergy decked him, and when asked for a reason
responded "I know what that means!"

On 20-Jul-2009, lee schotness <schotn...@gmail.com> wrote:





On 20 July, 04:23, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
On 17-Jul-2009, lee schotness <schotn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Personally I think the ordinary Pals are just as sick of this as a lot
of Israeli's are
& would jump at the chance for peace

And whatmakes you think this?
What evidence have they shown of this?

albeit with some grumbling
for example Gaza has been very quiet since the last reprisal

How long has it been since the last reprisal?
How long is it usually between incidents like this?

Susan

It seems to be 2 or 3 years,

Then I guess you count "reprisal" as something different than I do.

I count reprisal as a military action designed to punish & deter further aggression, Israels policy on a number of occasions, incidentally copied from us, us being the British & used by us to 'good' effect, on some occasions. Useful where a comprehensive military victory seems unlikely, or undesirable. ie Lebanon, we didn't really want re occupy it, Gaza the same. The Jenin operation may be different because the aim seems to have been to kill or arrest all the militants, rather than deter them.

quiet for a long time now & haven't some of the militants there given
up the armed struggle altogether.

IOW, giving up land does nothing - it's military action which works.

Susan

I would say both, we gave the militants 'a good kicking'. So that we
both know who really won, despite the bravado, Then we've given the PA
more control of internal security. Carrot & stick is a well known
phrase for good reasons.

Don Levey <Don_SCJM@the-leveys.us> wrote:

This reminds me of a story I once heard, about a <clergyperson> on
vacation. He brought his family to <worship experience>, including the
newborn. The clergyman at the vacation spot looked at the (less than
attractive) child and said in an admiring tone: "well, isn't *that* a
baby!" The visiting clergy decked him, and when asked for a reason
responded "I know what that means!"

Just to totally suck all the fun/amusment aout of this,
I have to say: there is no such thing as an ugly baby.
Every baby is the light of *someone's* life, & so, is
beautiful.

flaviaR@verizon.net writes:
Just to totally suck all the fun/amusment aout of this,
I have to say: there is no such thing as an ugly baby.
Every baby is the light of *someone's* life, & so, is
beautiful.

To take this one step further. I have heard of that method being
used to _avoid_ either lying or being "brutaly honest". When asked
about a dress that is not particularly nice, my wife might say "What
a dress!!".

flaviaR@verizon.net writes:
Don Levey <Don_SCJM@the-leveys.us> wrote:

This reminds me of a story I once heard, about a <clergyperson> on
vacation. He brought his family to <worship experience>, including the
newborn. The clergyman at the vacation spot looked at the (less than
attractive) child and said in an admiring tone: "well, isn't *that* a
baby!" The visiting clergy decked him, and when asked for a reason
responded "I know what that means!"
Just to totally suck all the fun/amusment aout of this,
I have to say: there is no such thing as an ugly baby.
Every baby is the light of *someone's* life, & so, is
beautiful.

To take this one step further. I have heard of that method being
used to _avoid_ either lying or being "brutaly honest". When asked
about a dress that is not particularly nice, my wife might say "What
a dress!!".

Which was, indeed, the reason for the phrasing in my anecdote. Having

On 20 July, 04:23, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
On 17-Jul-2009, lee schotness <schotn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Personally I think the ordinary Pals are just as sick of this as a lot
of Israeli's are
& would jump at the chance for peace

And whatmakes you think this?
What evidence have they shown of this?

albeit with some grumbling
for example Gaza has been very quiet since the last reprisal
--------------
How long has it been since the last reprisal?
How long is it usually between incidents like this?

Susan

It seems to be 2 or 3 years,

but then again Jenin, has been mostly
quiet for a long time now & haven't some of the militants there given
up the armed struggle altogether.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:46:41 +0000 (UTC), lee schotness





schotn...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 20 July, 04:23, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
On 17-Jul-2009, lee schotness <schotn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Personally I think the ordinary Pals are just as sick of this as a lot
of Israeli's are
& would jump at the chance for peace

And whatmakes you think this?
What evidence have they shown of this?

albeit with some grumbling
for example Gaza has been very quiet since the last reprisal
           --------------
How long has it been since the last reprisal?
How long is it usually between incidents like this?

Susan

It seems to be 2 or 3 years,

What are you talking about?  The war in Gaza was over only 6 months
and 3 days ago.

And there have been mortar and rocket attacks from Gaza since then,
and Israeli attacks on Gaza since then.



but then again Jenin,  has been mostly
quiet for a long time now & haven't some of the militants there given
up the armed struggle altogether.

moshes@mm.huji.ac.il wrote:
flaviaR@verizon.net writes:
Just to totally suck all the fun/amusment aout of this,
I have to say: there is no such thing as an ugly baby.
Every baby is the light of *someone's* life, & so, is
beautiful.

To take this one step further. I have heard of that method being
used to _avoid_ either lying or being "brutaly honest". When asked
about a dress that is not particularly nice, my wife might say "What
a dress!!".

How does one dance before the bride?
Beis Shammai says you do so while praising her for what she is.
Beis Hillel says that you say she is beautiful and kind.

The question and Beis Hillel's answer became lyrics for which there are
numerous tunes, sung at O weddings.

The discussion is raised in a broader dicussion of lying. The rishonim
ad loc debate whether Beis Hillel was permitting outright lying for the
sake of peace, or were allowing one to rely on the assumption that every
bride is beautiful in her groom's eyes.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

The discussion is raised in a broader dicussion of lying. The rishonim
ad loc debate whether Beis Hillel was permitting outright lying for the
sake of peace, or were allowing one to rely on the assumption that every
bride is beautiful in her groom's eyes.

Or at least not distasteful and not unpalatable.

On 18-Jul-2009, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

As far as Obama pushing for Israel to surrender land, I don't like it
one bit. However in retrospect, what is the realistic solution?

Who says that surrendering land is realistic?
History shows us that it only makes things worse.

Susan

On Jul 19, 11:28 pm, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
On 18-Jul-2009, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

As far as Obama pushing for Israel to surrender land, I don't like it
one bit. However in retrospect, what is the realistic solution?

Who says that surrendering land is realistic?
History shows us that it only makes things worse.

Susan

What should Israel do with the over one million Arabs living in Judea
and Samaria?

On 29-Jul-2009, Fattuchus <fattuchus@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Jul 19, 11:28 pm, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
On 18-Jul-2009, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

As far as Obama pushing for Israel to surrender land, I don't like it
one bit. However in retrospect, what is the realistic solution?

Who says that surrendering land is realistic?
History shows us that it only makes things worse.

Susan

What should Israel do with the over one million Arabs living in Judea
and Samaria?

In another thread, I gave a solution:

We annex the land & give them the choice:

They can:

a) be equal citizens - *WITHOUT* the exemption
to serve in the army,

b) consent to being resident aliens without the
full privileges of citizenship,

c) leave.

Susan

On 29-Jul-2009, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Jul 19, 11:28 pm, flav...@verizon.net wrote:
On 18-Jul-2009, Fattuchus <fattuc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

As far as Obama pushing for Israel to surrender land, I don't like it
one bit. However in retrospect, what is the realistic solution?

Who says that surrendering land is realistic?
History shows us that it only makes things worse.

Susan

What should Israel do with the over one million Arabs living in Judea
and Samaria?

In another thread, I gave a solution:

We annex the land & give them the choice:

They can:

a) be equal citizens - *WITHOUT* the exemption
to serve in the army,

b) consent to being resident aliens without the
full privileges of citizenship,

c) leave.

Susan