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Society Groups Forum Index » Thai Culture » OT: Language trainer for PC?
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| Good Soldier Schweik |
 Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:37 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:21:34 -0500, Frawley <frawley411@aol.com>
wrote:
Quote: Good Soldier Schweik <decypher.signature@sig.line> wrote:
Maxwell wrote...
A properly brought up Japanese woman always refers to her husband as
"The Master of the House". Unfortunately Thais don't speak much
Japanese :-)
The male desire for the appearance of dominance is a curious thing.
And I use the word "appearance" with considerable purpose. ;-)
In Japan it was very much appearances too. It was a great shock to
many of us after marrying that meek, mild, subversive, woman to
discover that you were expected to hand your pay packet over to your
wife, unopened. And, of course, like a good wife, she would hand you
your allowance each morning before you went to work - "How much money
will you need today, Husband?" "Errr, I don't know." "Well how many
cups of coffee will you drink?" "Err, two probably." Here's 10 cents,
Husband."
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom) |
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| maxwell |
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:45 am |
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Guest
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"Frawley" wrote ...
| "maxwell" wrote:
| >"Frawley" wrote ...
| >| Good Soldier Schweik wrote:
| >
| ><snip much>
<small snip>
| >| >Of course Palace people don't talk that way 
| >
| >| No, the royals don't speak Thai to begin with. They speak Raachaasap.
I'm sure you knew that, though.
| >
| >My wife says Raachaasap is formed of Raachaa (king) and sap (vocabulary)
and refers to words (particularly pronouns, nouns, adjectives and verbs)
used not *by* royals, but rather, words used when common folk address royals
or speak of royals, and notes that special word forms (other than
Raachaasap) (<(-(<--later amended; my misunderstanding))) are used when
speaking of or to persons of high rank, and of or to monks.
| >I would think this to be a Central, Standard practice, not necessarily
extant or comprehended throughout the Kingdom.
| It actually is spoken among, or "by", royals as well. The excellent
citation you provided elsewhere, repeated below, has Prince Chula
| commenting that the Chakri Family will often write to one another in
English in order to avoid the elaborate language required among ranks.
| Small nit, that.
Not to pick that nit too nittily, but does Chula's reportage of the ardors
of properly-expressed writing necessarily mean Raachaasap is *spoken*
amongst royals in ordinary conversation?
Consider the comparative passages seen in Table 4.2 (p.5 of the text I
linked to, and given the choice of scribing in English "he came . . "
versus the *properly written* Raachasaap form of "khaw maa .. . "
Well, small wonder the easier English when writing, but would a royal one
necessarily speak all of that properly-parsed Raachaasap verbiage when in
conversation with peers, anymore than 'common' Thai necessarily suffix the
khrap or ka particles to every phrase spoken between close acquaintances?
|Nam Peung reports that Raachaasap is taught in Thai schools, so everyone
theoretically has a small amount of exposure to
| it. She reports it isn't extensive study, however. Just "enough".
My wife recalls mainly some lessons from her Matayom years (in Phichit) that
entailed translating Raachaasap into regular Thai..
| >She also notes that we English speakers appear to limit this sort of
special
| >language in regard to our own exalted persons to pronouns (e.g., His/Her
| >Majesty, Honor, Eminence . . .) while using regular English verbs when
| >referring to what these special ones do.
| >
| >On the topic of what to call mother, it would seem that the North East
| >convention does not extend to Central Thailand, as a mother would
generally
| >be called Paa+(name or nickname), Naa+(name or nickname),or Aa+(name or
| >nickname), when addressed by children other than her own, with Paa and
Naa
| >relative to her being, respectively, older or younger than one's own
mother,
| >whether one is a relative or not. Aa+(name or nickname) is used only if
she
| >is a younger sister of one's own father.
|
| We have an admittedly small family. Mae is an only child, but she
| does have a college pal who is one of those non-blood "aunts". Nam
| Peung calls her "Paa (nickname)". Khun Paw has one sister and 2
| s-i-l. They each are addressed either Paa+Nick or Aa+Nick dependent
| upon their age relative to Paw's age. There are lots of Naa+Nicks,
| all on Mae's side of things. My understanding is that Paa is the
| older sister of either parent, Lung is the older brother of either
| parent, Aa is the younger sister or brother of the father and Naa is
| the younger brother or sister of the mother. Because good friends are
| often addressed as extended family, we have loads of Paas, Lungs, Aas
| and Naas running about.
I can *barely* keep track of all of our constellation of relations ;~)
| >Called Mae by her own children, and by name or nickname (whether or not
| >preceded by Khun, dependent on familiarity), by non-relatives, a mother
| >*could* conceivably be referred to as 'mother of (child's name)' if the
| >person didn't know the mother's name, but only that of her child, while
| >calling her 'mother of (child's name)' would not be done by actual
| >acquaintances.
| >
| >Simple enough?
| >
| >(not for me ;~)
|
| Then there's the initial sorting out of which sisters, brothers, aunts and
uncles are real relatives and which are honorary relatives. "OK,
| so that sister is your friend and the other sister is your cousin, and
that uncle is your mom's cousin and your 2nd cousin. Got it..."
Righto ;~) |
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| maxwell |
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:55 am |
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Guest
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"Frawley" <frawley411@aol.com> wrote ...
| , Frawley <frawley411@aol.com>| wrote:
| > "maxwell" <mmmaxwell@hotmail.com> wrote:
| >>"Frawley" wrote ...
| >>| Good Soldier Schweik wrote:
|| >><snip much>
<snip maak maak>
| Which, I now see, is really just repeating what you'd said above. A
simple "that's my understanding, too" would have sufficed, eh?
perhaps it would not have been as enjoyable? . . 'the road not taken can
never be trod' . . or somesuch ;~) |
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| maxwell |
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:58 am |
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| Krypsis |
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:39 pm |
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Guest
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Good Soldier Schweik wrote:
Quote: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:21:34 -0500, Frawley <frawley411@aol.com
wrote:
Good Soldier Schweik <decypher.signature@sig.line> wrote:
Maxwell wrote...
A properly brought up Japanese woman always refers to her husband as
"The Master of the House". Unfortunately Thais don't speak much
Japanese
The male desire for the appearance of dominance is a curious thing.
And I use the word "appearance" with considerable purpose. ;-)
In Japan it was very much appearances too. It was a great shock to
many of us after marrying that meek, mild, subversive, woman to
So you married a "subversive" woman. You know, that doesn't surprise me
at all, at least not in your case. People like you are only able to find
and get to know subversive women. It reflects your own nature, all too
evidently on display here in SCT.
A journalist AND an engineer! What a laugh!
Quote: discover that you were expected to hand your pay packet over to your
wife, unopened. And, of course, like a good wife, she would hand you
your allowance each morning before you went to work - "How much money
will you need today, Husband?" "Errr, I don't know." "Well how many
cups of coffee will you drink?" "Err, two probably." Here's 10 cents,
Husband."
And no balls to boot! Again, no surprise!
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom)
Krypsis |
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| Krypsis |
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:42 pm |
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Guest
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Noi wrote:
Quote: On Jul 9, 10:00 am, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com> wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:49:01 +0700, Good Soldier Schweik
decypher.signat...@sig.line> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:19:35 -0500, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com
wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:25:45 +0700, Good Soldier Schweik
decypher.signat...@sig.line> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:17:31 -0500, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com
wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:19:54 -0400, "maxwell" <mmmaxw...@hotmail.com
wrote:
| >But, I'll bet that if they have been living together for any period that
know what each other is saying. After all, don't most couples
| >develop a "private language" that they understand, and perhaps others
| >don't?
|
| I believe you may be over thinking this. The OP seems simply interested
in finding a mechanism to better understand tonal
| differences and speak the language with improved precision, not really so
much to let his girlfriend understand him better. As you suggest, she
likely understands him just fine but he probably wishes, all the same, to
provoke a little less laughter.
| >cheers,
| >Schweik
| Regards,
| - Frawley
As poor as I am with speaking tones anywhere near reasonably correct,
if I were Bernd, I'd consider getting a dog and a horse to provide some
additional feedback 8~)
Cheers,
-maxwell
I've never had the maa issue with Nam Peung because I just ask her to
come on over by using her name (accompanied by subtle physical clue,
if necessary). Now the mother-in-law... I've "accidentally" called
*her* a dog or horse on occasion, then laughed it off, same as I
sometimes accidentally call the aunts "crazy". Sometimes it's good
fun to be viewed as ignorant in the language.
Regards,
- Frawley
You actually address your wife by name? No little sister? No kids yet?
Yes, but by either her common nickname or, more commonly, by my pet
name for her. No kids as yet. Little sister? I plead ignorance
there.
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom)
Regards,
- Frawley
Ask your wife whether she should be addressed by name or as "Nong".
(or maybe I'm old fashioned)
That could well be. She's a Thammasat grad and has 2 Masters degrees.
I paid no sin sot. Her paw, a university engineering professor, was
pretty clear that his daughter was not for sale. We share chores
around the house. She doesn't hide her opinions very often. If she
preferred being called Norng, she'd have corrected me long ago.
Welcome to the 21st century, mate! :-)
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom)
Regards,
- Frawley- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
K'John:
Nobody beats my husband when come to this:
1. He seldom speaks Thai with me (but then again we met in the
U.S. during my last year at the U of M).
2. He usually call me “hey wife” – even his email to me it’s “Hi
Wife”. His family and our friends got a charge out of the way he
calls me.
I personally don’t mind at all, because it’s fit his personality, a
straight shooter, what you see is what you get kind of person. I know
his heart, he’s the most caring and loving person and he shows by his
actions! As he told me that he will always let me know that he loves
me not just by word but by actions as well.
I would rather deal with a man who I know exactly where he stands at
all times than a man with all the right words but is playing a game
with me.
You wouldn't fit in with our friend Schweik. He likes his women to be
"subversive". That would mean he would be spending much of his time on
his knees!
Quote:
In short, all the right and sweet words in the world with no action to
back up is sickening and nauseating to me (not to mention insulting my
intelligence as well).
Yes, you've described Schweik quite well there!
Krypsis |
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| Magnus |
| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:37 pm |
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Guest
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On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:39:04 +1000, Krypsis
<krypsisREMOVETHIS@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Quote: Good Soldier Schweik wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:21:34 -0500, Frawley <frawley411@aol.com
wrote:
Good Soldier Schweik <decypher.signature@sig.line> wrote:
Maxwell wrote...
A properly brought up Japanese woman always refers to her husband as
"The Master of the House". Unfortunately Thais don't speak much
Japanese
The male desire for the appearance of dominance is a curious thing.
And I use the word "appearance" with considerable purpose. ;-)
In Japan it was very much appearances too. It was a great shock to
many of us after marrying that meek, mild, subversive, woman to
So you married a "subversive" woman. You know, that doesn't surprise me
at all, at least not in your case. People like you are only able to find
and get to know subversive women. It reflects your own nature, all too
evidently on display here in SCT.
A journalist AND an engineer! What a laugh!
discover that you were expected to hand your pay packet over to your
wife, unopened. And, of course, like a good wife, she would hand you
your allowance each morning before you went to work - "How much money
will you need today, Husband?" "Errr, I don't know." "Well how many
cups of coffee will you drink?" "Err, two probably." Here's 10 cents,
Husband."
And no balls to boot! Again, no surprise!
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom)
Krypsis
Please,
Let our coward usenet troll live in his own world of fantasy.
Stuck at the Bangkok dock for THIRTY YEARS is not something everybody
would bear without any serious brain damage!
;-)
Mort |
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| Frawley |
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:28 am |
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Guest
|
Quote: Noi <superploy3@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 9, 10:00 am, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com> wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:49:01 +0700, Good Soldier Schweik
decypher.signat...@sig.line> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:19:35 -0500, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com
wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:25:45 +0700, Good Soldier Schweik
decypher.signat...@sig.line> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:17:31 -0500, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com
wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:19:54 -0400, "maxwell" <mmmaxw...@hotmail.com
wrote:
| >But, I'll bet that if they have been living together for any period that
know what each other is saying. After all, don't most couples
| >develop a "private language" that they understand, and perhaps others
| >don't?
|
| I believe you may be over thinking this. The OP seems simply interested
in finding a mechanism to better understand tonal
| differences and speak the language with improved precision, not really so
much to let his girlfriend understand him better. As you suggest, she
likely understands him just fine but he probably wishes, all the same, to
provoke a little less laughter. :-)
| >cheers,
| >Schweik
| Regards,
| - Frawley
As poor as I am with speaking tones anywhere near reasonably correct,
if I were Bernd, I'd consider getting a dog and a horse to provide some
additional feedback 8~)
Cheers,
-maxwell
I've never had the maa issue with Nam Peung because I just ask her to
come on over by using her name (accompanied by subtle physical clue,
if necessary). Now the mother-in-law... I've "accidentally" called
*her* a dog or horse on occasion, then laughed it off, same as I
sometimes accidentally call the aunts "crazy". Sometimes it's good
fun to be viewed as ignorant in the language. :-)
Regards,
- Frawley
You actually address your wife by name? No little sister? No kids yet?
Yes, but by either her common nickname or, more commonly, by my pet
name for her. No kids as yet. Little sister? I plead ignorance
there.
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom)
Regards,
- Frawley
Ask your wife whether she should be addressed by name or as "Nong".
(or maybe I'm old fashioned)
That could well be. She's a Thammasat grad and has 2 Masters degrees.
I paid no sin sot. Her paw, a university engineering professor, was
pretty clear that his daughter was not for sale. We share chores
around the house. She doesn't hide her opinions very often. If she
preferred being called Norng, she'd have corrected me long ago.
Welcome to the 21st century, mate! :-)
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom)
Regards,
- Frawley- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
K'John:
Nobody beats my husband when come to this:
1. He seldom speaks Thai with me (but then again we met in the
U.S. during my last year at the U of M).
2. He usually call me “hey wife” – even his email to me it’s “Hi
Wife”. His family and our friends got a charge out of the way he
calls me.
I personally don’t mind at all, because it’s fit his personality, a
straight shooter, what you see is what you get kind of person. I know
his heart, he’s the most caring and loving person and he shows by his
actions! As he told me that he will always let me know that he loves
me not just by word but by actions as well.
I would rather deal with a man who I know exactly where he stands at
all times than a man with all the right words but is playing a game
with me.
In short, all the right and sweet words in the world with no action to
back up is sickening and nauseating to me (not to mention insulting my
intelligence as well).
Noi
A good note, and nice to see you back here again, K'Noi. Last time
you passed through there was a fellow or two who responded to you with
a level of derision no matter the subject or the attitude. They never
really spoke to you as a person. They seemed just to attack a more
loosely sct "definition" of you. Hoping people will be more adult now
and that you can contribute a bit more again, especially since the
rest of us here are pretty well a bunch of oddball white guys. A
female Thai, or just a Thai at all, would be such a refreshing
influence in soc.culture.ahem.thai.
Best regards,
- John "Jake" Frawley; Great Lakes |
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| Noi |
| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:30 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 16, 10:28 pm, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com> wrote:
Quote: Noi <superpl...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 9, 10:00 am, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com> wrote:
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:49:01 +0700, Good Soldier Schweik
decypher.signat...@sig.line> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:19:35 -0500, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com
wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:25:45 +0700, Good Soldier Schweik
decypher.signat...@sig.line> wrote:
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:17:31 -0500, Frawley <frawley...@aol.com
wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:19:54 -0400, "maxwell" <mmmaxw...@hotmail.com
wrote:
| >But, I'll bet that if they have been living together for any period that
know what each other is saying. After all, don't most couples
| >develop a "private language" that they understand, and perhaps others
| >don't?
|
| I believe you may be over thinking this. The OP seems simply interested
in finding a mechanism to better understand tonal
| differences and speak the language with improved precision, not really so
much to let his girlfriend understand him better. As you suggest, she
likely understands him just fine but he probably wishes, all the same, to
provoke a little less laughter. :-)
| >cheers,
| >Schweik
| Regards,
| - Frawley
As poor as I am with speaking tones anywhere near reasonably correct,
if I were Bernd, I'd consider getting a dog and a horse to provide some
additional feedback 8~)
Cheers,
-maxwell
I've never had the maa issue with Nam Peung because I just ask her to
come on over by using her name (accompanied by subtle physical clue,
if necessary). Now the mother-in-law... I've "accidentally" called
*her* a dog or horse on occasion, then laughed it off, same as I
sometimes accidentally call the aunts "crazy". Sometimes it's good
fun to be viewed as ignorant in the language. :-)
Regards,
- Frawley
You actually address your wife by name? No little sister? No kids yet?
Yes, but by either her common nickname or, more commonly, by my pet
name for her. No kids as yet. Little sister? I plead ignorance
there.
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom)
Regards,
- Frawley
Ask your wife whether she should be addressed by name or as "Nong".
(or maybe I'm old fashioned)
That could well be. She's a Thammasat grad and has 2 Masters degrees.
I paid no sin sot. Her paw, a university engineering professor, was
pretty clear that his daughter was not for sale. We share chores
around the house. She doesn't hide her opinions very often. If she
preferred being called Norng, she'd have corrected me long ago.
Welcome to the 21st century, mate! :-)
cheers,
Schweik
(goodsoldierschweikatgmaildotcom)
Regards,
- Frawley- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
K'John:
Nobody beats my husband when come to this:
1. He seldom speaks Thai with me (but then again we met in the
U.S. during my last year at the U of M).
2. He usually call me “hey wife” – even his email to me it’s “Hi
Wife”. His family and our friends got a charge out of the way he
calls me.
I personally don’t mind at all, because it’s fit his personality, a
straight shooter, what you see is what you get kind of person. I know
his heart, he’s the most caring and loving person and he shows by his
actions! As he told me that he will always let me know that he loves
me not just by word but by actions as well.
I would rather deal with a man who I know exactly where he stands at
all times than a man with all the right words but is playing a game
with me.
In short, all the right and sweet words in the world with no action to
back up is sickening and nauseating to me (not to mention insulting my
intelligence as well).
Noi
A good note, and nice to see you back here again, K'Noi. Last time
you passed through there was a fellow or two who responded to you with
a level of derision no matter the subject or the attitude. They never
really spoke to you as a person. They seemed just to attack a more
loosely sct "definition" of you. Hoping people will be more adult now
and that you can contribute a bit more again, especially since the
rest of us here are pretty well a bunch of oddball white guys. A
female Thai, or just a Thai at all, would be such a refreshing
influence in soc.culture.ahem.thai.
Best regards,
- John "Jake" Frawley; Great Lakes- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
K'John:
Things have been hectic for me in the last few years. The good news
is we are back to normal again. We went to our annual trekking up
north in June and will be heading to Grand Marais at the end of
July.
Regards,
Noi |
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| english_sod_in_a_wheelcha |
| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:16 pm |
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Guest
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On Jul 19, 11:30 am, Noi <superpl...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Things have been hectic for me in the last few years. The good news
is we are back to normal again. We went to our annual trekking up
north in June and will be heading to Grand Marais at the end of
July.
Regards,
Noi
Will that be with or without the "white knight" William?
We haven't heard his ravings in SCT a few years.
Maybe it's time to calll him for duty .......
-
"I have been working for the elections of G. W. Bush"
Famous words from Noi ............ |
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