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2.7182818284590...
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:03 am
Guest
Questions on US' External, Intragovernmental, Internal, and Total Debt


According to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
, the US has a external debt/GDP is 99.95% of GDP. Ireland's figure
is 961%!

Rank ↓ Country - Entity ↓ External Debt
(million US$) ↓ Date of information ↓ External Debt
Per Capita (US$) ↓ Date of population* ↓ External debt (% of
GDP) ↓
World $54,610,000 2008 $9,100 2008 est.
69.68%
1 United States[1] $13,703,567 6/30/2008 $42,343
31-March-08 99.95%
2 United Kingdom $10,450,000 6/30/2007 $174,167
July 2008 374.96%
6 Ireland $1,841,000 6/30/2007 $448,032 30-
Jun-08 960.86%



Also, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt ,
the Total Debt of the USA is $12.3T.
United States Total Debt (Split)
End of fiscal year Intragovernmental Holdings Debt Held by the
Public
2009* est 5.900 trillion 6.400
trillion

The entire GDP of the USA is about $15T. This implies that the total
debt/GDP of the USA is 82%. Of this total debt, we can see that 48%
is in Intragovernmental Holdings and 52% is Debt Held By the Public
(i.e. 0.52 = 6.4/12.3).

Further down from this same article, it states that "As is apparent
from the chart, a little more than half of the total national debt is
owed to the "Federal Reserve and intragovernmental holdings". The
foreign and international holders of the debt are also put together
from the notes, bills, and bonds sections."

Q1: FROM THE FIRST ARTICLE AT THE TOP, IT STATES THAT THE US'
EXTERNAL DEBT IS 99.95% OF GDP. DOES THIS CONTRADICT FROM THE SECOND
ARTICLE WHICH STATES THAT ONLY $6.4T OF THE DEBT IS EXTERNAL?

Q2: HOW CAN IRELAND HAVE A DEBT OF ~1000% OF GDP? THIS IMPLIES TO
ME THAT THE COUNTRY WILL GO BANKRUPT VERY SOON! WHAT KIND OF EFFECTS
IS THIS HAVING THERE? One person mentioned to me that this figure
takes into account bank deposits, which are bonds, if you think about
it. Well, foreigners also deposit money into Swiss and American bank
accounts. So why isn't our external debt ~1000%?

Q3: As a side, the terms "Debt Held by the Public" is very confusing
with "Total Public Debt Outstanding". Finally, I think that "Debt
Held by the Public" is how much we owe FOREIGN COUNTRIES to finance
our wars, roads, etc. However, "Intragovernmental Holdings" is how
much we owe TO OURSELVES to finance Social Security and Medicare/
Medicaid, among other things.
Rod Speed
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:34 am
Guest
2.7182818284590... wrote:
Quote:
Questions on US' External, Intragovernmental, Internal, and Total Debt


According to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt , the
US has a external debt/GDP is 99.95% of GDP. Ireland's figure
is 961%!

Rank ? Country - Entity ? External Debt
(million US$) ? Date of information ? External Debt
Per Capita (US$) ? Date of population* ? External debt (% of
GDP) ?
World $54,610,000 2008 $9,100 2008 est.
69.68%
1 United States[1] $13,703,567 6/30/2008 $42,343
31-March-08 99.95%
2 United Kingdom $10,450,000 6/30/2007 $174,167
July 2008 374.96%
6 Ireland $1,841,000 6/30/2007 $448,032 30-
Jun-08 960.86%



Also, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt ,
the Total Debt of the USA is $12.3T.
United States Total Debt (Split)
End of fiscal year Intragovernmental Holdings Debt Held by the
Public
2009* est 5.900 trillion 6.400
trillion

The entire GDP of the USA is about $15T. This implies that the total
debt/GDP of the USA is 82%. Of this total debt, we can see that 48%
is in Intragovernmental Holdings and 52% is Debt Held By the Public
(i.e. 0.52 = 6.4/12.3).

Further down from this same article, it states that "As is apparent
from the chart, a little more than half of the total national debt is
owed to the "Federal Reserve and intragovernmental holdings". The
foreign and international holders of the debt are also put together
from the notes, bills, and bonds sections."

Q1: FROM THE FIRST ARTICLE AT THE TOP, IT STATES THAT THE US'
EXTERNAL DEBT IS 99.95% OF GDP. DOES THIS CONTRADICT FROM THE SECOND
ARTICLE WHICH STATES THAT ONLY $6.4T OF THE DEBT IS EXTERNAL?

Nope, external debt is obviously a subset of total debt.

Quote:
Q2: HOW CAN IRELAND HAVE A DEBT OF ~1000% OF GDP?

The same way an individual can have a debt of 1000% of their income.

Quote:
THIS IMPLIES TO ME THAT THE COUNTRY WILL GO BANKRUPT VERY SOON!

Countrys cant go bankrupt in the sense that an individual or a company can
go bankrupt, with someone flogging off all the assets to the highest bidder
and handing the cash raised that way to whoever they owe the debt to.

The worse that can happen is that the country decides that it wont
repay the debt and those who own that debt have to like that or lump it.

Quote:
WHAT KIND OF EFFECTS IS THIS HAVING THERE?

Nothing really while ever operations like the IMF are prepared to put up that money.

Corse one consequence of that situation is that they do get to do what
the IMF etc requires them to do before they get any more money etc.

Quote:
One person mentioned to me that this figure takes into account bank deposits,

No it doesnt.

Quote:
which are bonds, if you think about it.

No they arent.

Quote:
Well, foreigners also deposit money into Swiss and American
bank accounts. So why isn't our external debt ~1000%?

Because the US hasnt fucked up as spectacularly as Ireland has.

Quote:
Q3: As a side, the terms "Debt Held by the Public" is
very confusing with "Total Public Debt Outstanding".

That sentence doesnt even make sense.

Quote:
Finally, I think that "Debt Held by the Public" is how much we
owe FOREIGN COUNTRIES to finance our wars, roads, etc.

Nope. Those are normally funded by both debt and taxation when a deficit is being run.

Quote:
However, "Intragovernmental Holdings" is how much we owe TO OURSELVES
to finance Social Security and Medicare/ Medicaid, among other things.

Utterly mangled all over again.
 
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