9-across Release relatives out of bounds (5)

U?T?E

This is obviously UNTIE and it's probably something that means "relatives"
(kin?) removed form something that means "bounds", but I just can't think of
it.

23-across: Man initially stationed in castle (6)

?N?G?T

This has to be KNIGHT, and appears to be a cryptic definition, but it seems
barely cryptic to me, and I'm obviously missing some witty double-entendre.

Steve Ball:

9-across Release relatives out of bounds (5)

U?T?E

This is obviously UNTIE and it's probably something that means "relatives"
(kin?) removed form something that means "bounds", but I just can't think of
it.

"Out of bounds" is an operator, gryyvat lbh gb qryrgr gur svefg naq ynfg
yrggref.

23-across: Man initially stationed in castle (6)

?N?G?T

This has to be KNIGHT, and appears to be a cryptic definition, but it seems
barely cryptic to me, and I'm obviously missing some witty double-entendre.

When you castle, you move the king two spaces toward the nearest rook and
the rook onto the space that the king crossed over. Assuming that the
pawns on the three outside files are still in their starting positions,
this creates a protected area around the king, which is the reason that
this special move is possible.

I think the composer is taking the verb "castle" as being derived from the
idea that this area is a "castle" protecting the king, which makes some
sense, although confusing the issue is the fact that "castle" is also an
old name for a rook. Anyway, before you can castle, one of the things you
have to do is move the knight out of the way, because its initial position
is within the place where the protected area is going to be.

Either that or I'm missing something.

Thanks. I had missed the chess analogy, though I'm still not sure of what's
intended.

Steve = : ^ )

Mark Brader said:

Steve Ball:

9-across Release relatives out of bounds (5)

U?T?E

This is obviously UNTIE and it's probably something that means "relatives"
(kin?) removed form something that means "bounds", but I just can't think of
it.

"Out of bounds" is an operator, gryyvat lbh gb qryrgr gur svefg naq ynfg
yrggref.

23-across: Man initially stationed in castle (6)

?N?G?T

This has to be KNIGHT, and appears to be a cryptic definition, but it seems
barely cryptic to me, and I'm obviously missing some witty double-entendre.

When you castle, you move the king two spaces toward the nearest rook and
the rook onto the space that the king crossed over. Assuming that the
pawns on the three outside files are still in their starting positions,
this creates a protected area around the king, which is the reason that
this special move is possible.

I think the composer is taking the verb "castle" as being derived from the
idea that this area is a "castle" protecting the king, which makes some
sense, although confusing the issue is the fact that "castle" is also an
old name for a rook. Anyway, before you can castle, one of the things you
have to do is move the knight out of the way, because its initial position
is within the place where the protected area is going to be.

Either that or I'm missing something.

Arrrggghhh! I _hate_ quoting a clue wrongly but, despite my best efforts, I
have. 23-across should read:

23-across: Man initially stationed in a castle (6)

which makes better sense of the chess analogy.

Apologies to all.

Steve = : ^ )

Steve B. said:

Thanks. I had missed the chess analogy, though I'm still not sure of what's
intended.

Steve = : ^ )

Mark Brader said:

Steve Ball:

9-across Release relatives out of bounds (5)

U?T?E

This is obviously UNTIE and it's probably something that means "relatives"
(kin?) removed form something that means "bounds", but I just can't think
of
it.

"Out of bounds" is an operator, gryyvat lbh gb qryrgr gur svefg naq ynfg
yrggref.

23-across: Man initially stationed in castle (6)

?N?G?T

This has to be KNIGHT, and appears to be a cryptic definition, but it seems
barely cryptic to me, and I'm obviously missing some witty double-entendre.

When you castle, you move the king two spaces toward the nearest rook and
the rook onto the space that the king crossed over. Assuming that the
pawns on the three outside files are still in their starting positions,
this creates a protected area around the king, which is the reason that
this special move is possible.

I think the composer is taking the verb "castle" as being derived from the
idea that this area is a "castle" protecting the king, which makes some
sense, although confusing the issue is the fact that "castle" is also an
old name for a rook. Anyway, before you can castle, one of the things you
have to do is move the knight out of the way, because its initial position
is within the place where the protected area is going to be.

Either that or I'm missing something.

Okay...calm down...breathe slowly...

Take *3*. The correct version of 23-across is:

Man initially stationed inside a castle? (6)

Much better.

In article <C178F056.806DA%pretty_good@every.thing>,
Steve B. <pretty_good@every.thing> wrote:
Okay...calm down...breathe slowly...

Take *3*. The correct version of 23-across is:

Man initially stationed inside a castle? (6)

Much better.

I'm still not sure I get it. The best interpretation I can put on
this clue is that "castle" just means "rook", and the chess man known
as a night is initially placed one square in from the rook. Is that
all it is?

All the stuff about the verb "to castle" in chess is irrelevant
here, as far as I can tell. Or am I missing something?

ebunn@lfa221051.richmond.edu> wrote in message
news:eivl7b$lce$1@bigbang.richmond.edu...
In article <C178F056.806DA%pretty_good@every.thing>,
Steve B. <pretty_good@every.thing> wrote:
Okay...calm down...breathe slowly...

Take *3*. The correct version of 23-across is:

Man initially stationed inside a castle? (6)

Much better.

I'm still not sure I get it. The best interpretation I can put on
this clue is that "castle" just means "rook", and the chess man known
as a night is initially placed one square in from the rook. Is that
all it is?

All the stuff about the verb "to castle" in chess is irrelevant
here, as far as I can tell. Or am I missing something?

No you aren't missing anything. There's no noun in chess 'castle' to
indicate the area which the King and Rook pass over when they castle. It's
purely a verb indicating the manoeuvre. The clue means exactly what it says.
The piece stationed next to the Rook.

ebunn@lfa221051.richmond.edu> wrote in message
news:eivl7b$lce$1@bigbang.richmond.edu...
In article <C178F056.806DA%pretty_good@every.thing>,
Steve B. <pretty_good@every.thing> wrote:
Okay...calm down...breathe slowly...

Take *3*. The correct version of 23-across is:

Man initially stationed inside a castle? (6)

Much better.
I'm still not sure I get it. The best interpretation I can put on
this clue is that "castle" just means "rook", and the chess man known
as a night is initially placed one square in from the rook. Is that
all it is?

All the stuff about the verb "to castle" in chess is irrelevant
here, as far as I can tell. Or am I missing something?

No you aren't missing anything. There's no noun in chess 'castle' to
indicate the area which the King and Rook pass over when they castle. It's
purely a verb indicating the manoeuvre. The clue means exactly what it says.
The piece stationed next to the Rook.
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines
www.pumaracing.co.uk
Camp USA engineer minces about for high performance specialist (4,4,7)

Dave Baker wrote:
ebunn@lfa221051.richmond.edu> wrote in message
news:eivl7b$lce$1@bigbang.richmond.edu...
In article <C178F056.806DA%pretty_good@every.thing>,
Steve B. <pretty_good@every.thing> wrote:
Okay...calm down...breathe slowly...

Take *3*. The correct version of 23-across is:

Man initially stationed inside a castle? (6)

Much better.
I'm still not sure I get it. The best interpretation I can put on
this clue is that "castle" just means "rook", and the chess man
known
as a night is initially placed one square in from the rook. Is
that
all it is?

All the stuff about the verb "to castle" in chess is irrelevant
here, as far as I can tell. Or am I missing something?

No you aren't missing anything. There's no noun in chess 'castle'
to
indicate the area which the King and Rook pass over when they
castle. It's
purely a verb indicating the manoeuvre. The clue means exactly what
it says.
The piece stationed next to the Rook.
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines
www.pumaracing.co.uk
Camp USA engineer minces about for high performance specialist
(4,4,7)



Aren't some knights stationed in castles?

I see "A military servant of the king" as one of the meanings of
knight.

"Vari L. Cinicke" <cinicke@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:vgO4h.230612$QZ1.104832@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Aren't some knights stationed in castles?

I see "A military servant of the king" as one of the meanings of
knight.

Yes, some knights are stationed in castles. But this wouldn't give
the word "initially" any reason to be there, and the clue doesn't
seem at all cryptic if you interpret it this way. With the
"inside rook" meaning you have to find the right kind of castle,
and "initially" is necessary.

Peter B

Dave Baker wrote:

ebunn@lfa221051.richmond.edu> wrote in message
news:eivl7b$lce$1@bigbang.richmond.edu...

In article <C178F056.806DA%pretty_good@every.thing>,
Steve B. <pretty_good@every.thing> wrote:

Okay...calm down...breathe slowly...

Take *3*. The correct version of 23-across is:

Man initially stationed inside a castle? (6)

Much better.

I'm still not sure I get it. The best interpretation I can put on
this clue is that "castle" just means "rook", and the chess man known
as a night is initially placed one square in from the rook. Is that
all it is?

All the stuff about the verb "to castle" in chess is irrelevant
here, as far as I can tell. Or am I missing something?

No you aren't missing anything. There's no noun in chess 'castle' to
indicate the area which the King and Rook pass over when they castle. It's
purely a verb indicating the manoeuvre. The clue means exactly what it says.
The piece stationed next to the Rook.


Then it would have been "Man initially stationed beside a castle? (6),"
and it's a C.D.-only.

The "inside" requires us to consider "the castle" as an instance of
castling -- "Deep Blue invoked the castle too soon, and Kasparov seized
on that mistake to win an insuperable advantage."

No, because inside infers direction towards the centre of the row.

Peter T. Daniels wrote:
Dave Baker wrote:

ebunn@lfa221051.richmond.edu> wrote in message
news:eivl7b$lce$1@bigbang.richmond.edu...

In article <C178F056.806DA%pretty_good@every.thing>,
Steve B. <pretty_good@every.thing> wrote:

Okay...calm down...breathe slowly...

Take *3*. The correct version of 23-across is:

Man initially stationed inside a castle? (6)

Much better.

I'm still not sure I get it. The best interpretation I can put on
this clue is that "castle" just means "rook", and the chess man known
as a night is initially placed one square in from the rook. Is that
all it is?

All the stuff about the verb "to castle" in chess is irrelevant
here, as far as I can tell. Or am I missing something?

No you aren't missing anything. There's no noun in chess 'castle' to
indicate the area which the King and Rook pass over when they castle. It's
purely a verb indicating the manoeuvre. The clue means exactly what it says.
The piece stationed next to the Rook.


Then it would have been "Man initially stationed beside a castle? (6),"
and it's a C.D.-only.

The "inside" requires us to consider "the castle" as an instance of
castling -- "Deep Blue invoked the castle too soon, and Kasparov seized
on that mistake to win an insuperable advantage."

No, because inside infers direction towards the centre of the row.

Groucho Marx had a line that ended with "..., inside a dog it's too dark
to see" (or something like that). Can anyone help me with the whole quote?

"Outside of a book, a dog is [a] man's best friend. Inside of a dog
it's too dark to read."

Phil Rose wrote:

Peter T. Daniels wrote:

Dave Baker wrote:


ebunn@lfa221051.richmond.edu> wrote in message

.... There's no noun in chess 'castle' to
indicate the area which the King and Rook pass over when they castle. It's
purely a verb indicating the manoeuvre. The clue means exactly what it says.
The piece stationed next to the Rook.


Then it would have been "Man initially stationed beside a castle? (6),"
and it's a C.D.-only.

The "inside" requires us to consider "the castle" as an instance of
castling -- "Deep Blue invoked the castle too soon, and Kasparov seized
on that mistake to win an insuperable advantage."


No, because inside infers direction towards the centre of the row.


There _isn't_ any station on a chessboard outside the rook's.