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Recreational Groups Forum Index » Motorcycles - Harley » Wrench Report: S&S gear drive and Andrews 12G cams
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| Rayvan |
 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:35 am |
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Have a SNPA. I'm buying!
Bike: Is an an '02 FXST (Softail Standard) purchased new in Dec '01.
It now has over 27,000 miles on it. I bought it in Dec 2001. This bike
has been extremely reliable. Actually the most reliable vehicle I've
ever owned (including cars). The only repair it's ever needed thus far
was a stoplight switch for the front brake and two blinker bulbs. None
of the covers have ever had to be removed from the motor/trans/primary
for any.reason.
I've been posting to this group since the mid nineties. In late 2001
when I originally ordered the bike, I'd already decided to change
over to a gear drive based on the problems I'd heard some people were
having with the chain tensioners reported here. I'd planned to have an
inspection done at 25,000 miles, and if anything was needed I'd have
all the parts gathered before-hand to make the switch to S&S gear
drive, so for the past year I've been collecting everything I needed
for the conversion along with some Andrews geared cams very close to
the stock Harley Grind. Namely the TW12G cams
Some things needed to be done before hand. I made a post on the Yahoo
TC88 forum about a month ago asking if anyone would be kind enough to
lend me the special tools needed. Several people waved their hands
(gotta love Harley people). I ended up contacting one member who said
that for a couple of T-shirts from some local shops he'd lend me his.
Quote: From Washington State he sent me everything he had (Jims tools) and
they worked brilliantly! A couple of shirts is a very small price to
pay.
Also, I studied this British dood's web site
http://www.harleyhog.co.uk/1550/bbonline.htm extensively about thirty
times before I began this project. At one point, I figured I could even
do this project with my eyes closed!
I needed to press two of the four S&S gears onto the Andrews TW12G
cams I bought last year. This was the only thing the HarleyHog site
didn't cover as he purchased his cams used with the gears already
installed. I have a friend, who is a tech at a local Chevrolet dealer
here in San Jose, CA. On Wednesday nights his boss allows the employees
to work on their own cars (or friends/family vehicles if they wish). He
said I could bring by the parts after work and he'd press the gears
onto the cams for me using their ten-ton hydraulic press. (Old looking
thing too. Looks like it'd been there since the sixties when the
dealership was built!) It worked like a charm. Thanks (and a sixer of
SNPA) for my buddy. Upon returning home, I took HarleyHogs advice and
stuck the cam/gear assemblies in the freezer along with the outer cam
bearings.
Last Saturday I finally got started on the bike. Since I'm not using
time-saver adjustable pushrods it's necessary to drain fuel and remove
the fuel tank and remove the valve covers, pushrods and pushrod tubes.
Some of you are probably wondering why I just didn't use adjustable
push-rods to make the job simpler. I *am* a simple guy, it's just that
I'm just *so* simple that I'm trying to do this project with as few
parts as possible  . Andrews TW12G cams use the same base-circles as
stock and for me, adjustable push-rods simply have too many parts! I've
seen adjustable push-rods fail, I've seen them loosen and collapse at
the dangdest times and I've also seen them bend valves when folks don't
do things right! I figured that doing it this way would at-the-most
only add about two hours to the project (and that estimate was about
right). Also, the tank has never been removed from the bike before and
it was time to pull things apart to check the condition of things. Fuel
lines and vacuum lines get kind of crusty and this made it real easy to
replace `em.
On HarleyHogs site, I learned that removing cam covers can be messy
when removed while perched high up on an ATV lift, so I also removed
the front exhaust pipe and the cam cover while the bike was on the
ground and let it drain neatly onto a drain-pan. This didn't quite work
out (Keep reading a few paragraphs ahead to find out why LOL!). I was
astounded at how clean the motor was on the inside. Most engines that
have been run for five years are tinged to a gold color at this point.
This motor looks as silvery as a brand-new one! Red-Line Synthetic
20W50 car oil was used and changed every five thousand miles since
break in.
So, up on the lift it goes. I removed the gas, the tank, upper valve
covers, pulled the breathers and the rocker assemblies, removed
pushrods, pushrod tubes and lifter blocks. I bagged and tagged all
those parts then removed the four lifters. Lifters all looked like they
were in great shape but I didn't bag & tag those as they're being
replaced with a fresh set of Harleys latest stuff (the -99B's that
are supposed to be the best yet). Using the Jims tensioner-retracting
tool, I pulled the outer tensioner back and secured it with the
included pin device and noticed it was only worn about 10%! WTF! My
wife Shari was standing over me when I inspected it and was both a bit
miffed and smug with the evidence of my obvious stupidity saying, "SEE?
You're spending all this money for nothing!" Oh, well. Onward. I'm not
putting it back together at this point.
Installed the Jims sprocket locking tool, I pulled the bolts from the
two outer sprockets and removed them along with the outer chain. I then
made a cardboard deal to hold the ten bolts that hold on the support
plate so I can re-install them into their original locations. Removed
and stored all the screws, lightly pulled on the plate and it came off
nicely. I then looked at the inner tensioner and went and got Shari so
I could gloat. It wasn't worn to the metal, but it was darn close. I
then gave her a severe dose of the `I-toljya-sos' and smugly pointed
out that If I didn't do this project, that within a month I'd be likely
be looking at spending LOTS more money than I've already spent. LOL!
Feels great when you've dodged a bullet! Shari was now on my good side
again too, kinda. Okay, well maybe I gloated a bit too much!
In all my smugness and elation with avoiding the impending possible
blown-motor, Shari now snickered and pointed out the massive oil-lake
forming underneath the ATV lift that the bike was sitting on. Oh crap!
Grabbed a drain pan and wedged it under the ATV lift to stop the lake
from increasing beyond `lake' and promoting itself to `great-lake'
status, I then grabbed the emergency cat litter bag and started
pouring. Dang. HarleyHog didn't say this was gonna happen! Course, he
didn't perform his project with a Softail either. (Unlike a tourer or a
Dyna, A Softail's oil is all kept higher than the cam chest, and when
removed, a siphon will start and won't-stop until the bike is empty).
Dang! That was fairly new oil too! The things ya learn! Oh, well. My
ATV lift is now a very well lubricated ATV lift.
All four of the stock cam bearings were in great shape. Using the
Jims tool I yanked out the inferior INA inners and installed the much
better Torrington B148 bearings that came in the S&S Gear Drive
installer kit. I installed the bearing for the front cam, spun it with
my finger and it spun real nice, I then installed the other bearing in
the rear spot. Crap! It wouldn't budge. Crap. Not using that bearing.
Road trip!
Went to a local MC parts store and they didn't have any in stock, so
they ordered some. They'd said they'd be in on Tuesday. Glad I didn't
wait. I'm writing this on Friday afternoon and they still haven't
called. Not wanting to wait, that same day I let my fingers do the
walking and ended up calling around and found a set at an Indy shop
here in San Jose. They had some in stock. Went and bought a set from
them. (Gotta buy `em in two's so when that other set gets here I'll
have three bearings left over). I Got home, installed the replacement
and it moves very nicely. Whew! Gonna have set-backs I guess.
Lots of research indicates that crank-run out is a problem with
gear-drives and some have stated that if you have more than .002, then
don't even bother with `em. Put the chains back in. Grabbed the dial
indicator and set it up on to drag on the crank just in front of the
oil-pump where the old-sprocket was (and new gear will be), spun the
back wheel (bike in fifth gear) and read the indicator: 0.000. The
needle didn't even flicker! Awesome!
HarleyHog's site stated that he'd used an oven to heat up his
support plate. For some reason Shari wouldn't let me use her brand new
oven. Dang. I removed the stock bearing retainer and found the heat gun
that I usually use for heating up shrink tubing. Stacked the support
plate up on a couple of clean 2X6 scraps so the cams had room to drop
out. I Turned up the heat gun laid it down so it was pointed up at the
plate. Walked away and let it get good and hot. When it was so hot that
I couldn't even touch it, I Grabbed set the appropriate Jims bearing
tool and gave both cams a quick rap with a small plastic hammer and
both stock cams and their original bearings dropped right out! Slicker
that snot on a doorknob!
While the cam plate was still hot I flipped it cam-side- up in the
Jims outer bearing installer deal and installed the outer bearings that
I had stored in the freezer a few days before. With just a smidgen of
persuasion, they dropped in nicely. Now time to install the cams that
were living in the freezer with the bearings for a few days. It was
almost too easy! Very little force needed. I then installed the snap
ring on the front cam, installed the S&S supplied bearing retainer,
then lubed up all the new bearings with assembly lube, replaced three
0-rings in the bikes motor (two oil passages and the oil pump) and
after the insanely hot support plate cooled off I re-installed it, and
aligned and bolted down the oil pump.
At this point, Andrews instructions say to stick a wooden dowel into
one of the lifter holes and jam the front cam and take a reading with a
dial indicator to measure the play in the two inner cam gears. Done.
Measured a bit over 0.001. Andrews says this is okay. I could hear a
faint click as I try and the rear cam back and forth. Gotta have some
clearance Clarence. Too little will cause a whine, but too much can
cause a clicky noise as the bike idles. When I rotated the cams I did
hear a slight click. I though I *may* hear that while the bike is
running, but I'm wasn't too worried at that point.
Time to install the sprockets and take another reading for the front
gears. Instructions say to take a reading at four points on the big
gear. I've got 0.001, 0.0005, .00005 and 0.000. Dang. No clearance
(Clarence) on that one spot. What to do? Get a smaller pinion gear from
S&S? Dang. Went to go read stuff on line about what to do...
After reading on-line the plights in the TC-88 digest forum-archives I
learned that several other members have had similar readings.
Satisfied, I went out and slathered assembly lube all over the gears
and buttoned the sucker up. I figured if it were noisy, it wouldn't be
too bad. If it were, I'd deal with it then. I can change a pinion gear
buy just removing the cam cover. Nothing else needs to be removed.
Cool. Strange that with the previous measurement of 0.000 on the crank
run out, I'd get any variance at all, the variance must be either the
large S&S gear or the rear cam.
Before the rocker covers were installed and without any spark plugs
installed, I dumped in three new quarts of oil, turned on the bike. I
figured I'd crank the motor over until the oil light went out, but for
some reason the motor was cranking very slowly. Far too slowly. The oil
light wouldn't go out spinning that show. Sh*t! As I was scratching my
head and pondering the reason for the slow cranking (very cold out,
idiotic mechanic, etc), my 11 yr. old son Alex, who was watching me
stated "Cool, the rear wheel spins real fast when you do that, dad!" I
then put the transmission in neutral and it spun like it should! Duh!
Okay, the oil light went out right way on that last attempt and it was
a nice feeling to have air blasting out of the spark plug holes every
other revolution. The valves are closing when they should (Meaning I've
got all the gears and rods installed correctly LOL!).
After the valve covers and front exhaust pipe was installed, I re-
installed the plugs and just for the heck of it, pulled the enrichener
knob, turned on the power and hit the starter button. She fired right
up! Didn't run too long. [Maybe] thirty seconds. I didn't have the gas
tank mounted yet so it only ran until it emptied the carb, but for what
little it ran, I was very pleased! No gear noise at all (likely because
all those gears were still slathered in assembly lube). It had a bit of
lifter noise, but it *was* quieting down nicely ('till it ran out of
fuel)
Later I installed the fuel tank, the dash and dumped in some fuel. I
then started it up and ran it until the motor was good and hot. No
lifter noise at all but this time, but I can hear those inner gears
faintly clicking at idle and I can hear a very faint gear noise. No
noisier than the swishing sound that the chains have been making since
new, just different!
After riding it for a few days I really didn't expect it to run any
different being that the cam profiles are so close to the stock cams,
but it does run differently. It idles differently. Instead of
potato-potato like it used to it says poTATo poTATo. IOW, a bit more of
a lope.
It's also a bit livelier when revved up and going up through the
gears. It could be that the valve timing is more accurate or it could
be because Andrews cam timing is just a hair different than stock. It
could also be less parasitic drag- I no longer have 45lbsX2 of
tensioner shoes constantly dragging on my valve train. Andrew says I
should have about a 4 HP increase in power. Whatever. I just know I'm
happy as heck knowing that I never have to wonder how my tensioners
look again because I no longer have them!
--
Rayvan |
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| Taxmanhog |
| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:25 am |
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Quote: "Rayvan" wrote..
Have a SNPA. I'm buying!
Hey RAY!
Excellent W/R, I printed it for a buddy who is contemplating this very
project.
I'll get the next round!
--
TaxmanHog - http://home.comcast.net/~taxmanhog/
BS#275
07-Ultra-CVO, 04-VRSCA-1320cc, 98-FXSTS
r.m.h FAQ - http://rmhfaq.com |
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| Omar |
| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:53 pm |
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Rayvan wrote:
Quote: Have a SNPA. I'm buying!
Don't mind if I do. Nice report Rayvan.
Omar |
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| MaGGie |
| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:02 am |
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"Rayvan" <rvannuland@cachevision.com> wrote in message
news:1169242538.650919.3270@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote: Have a SNPA. I'm buying!
schnip da report
I'll have a black coffee instead. Very nice writeup on this project, thanks
for sharing it with the collective gathered here.
MaGGie |
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| SteveT |
| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:50 am |
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"Rayvan" <rvannuland@cachevision.com> wrote:
: Last Saturday I finally got started on the bike.
Good stuff. This is part of the reason rmh is here.
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